Comments on: The Social Democratic Challenge http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/ debating progressive politics in Europe and beyond Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:03:18 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Rhoderick Gates http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-2358 Rhoderick Gates Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:20:48 +0000 http://www.social-europe.eu/?p=1750#comment-2358 Good. Tony Blair is recognised to be a person of acute intelligence, a former lawyer, careful with his choice of words. He deserved to be taken seriously -- both what he says, and what he omits. Like when he claimed he wouldn't reverse Thatcher's economic and trade union policies, I took him serious that he would perpetuate the Tory years as opposed to reverse & repair them. There are many legitimate issues one can critisise New Labour on, including from Mr. Lawson. Lawson remained silent apart from a few platitudes, because, he said, Blair was Prime Minister not him -- a fact that did not silence him on many other issues he talks about now. He is not directly falsifying the New Labour project, but the carefully framed deceit is instructive. Good. Tony Blair is recognised to be a person of acute intelligence, a former lawyer, careful with his choice of words. He deserved to be taken seriously — both what he says, and what he omits.

Like when he claimed he wouldn’t reverse Thatcher’s economic and trade union policies, I took him serious that he would perpetuate the Tory years as opposed to reverse & repair them.

There are many legitimate issues one can critisise New Labour on, including from Mr. Lawson. Lawson remained silent apart from a few platitudes, because, he said, Blair was Prime Minister not him — a fact that did not silence him on many other issues he talks about now. He is not directly falsifying the New Labour project, but the carefully framed deceit is instructive.

]]> By: Rhoderick Gates http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-2357 Rhoderick Gates Sat, 19 Sep 2009 04:15:59 +0000 http://www.social-europe.eu/?p=1750#comment-2357 Labour was set to win under John Smith, Dominic. The party's own internal polling showed that. And no, Lawson is not being consistent. Labour was set to win under John Smith, Dominic. The party’s own internal polling showed that. And no, Lawson is not being consistent.

]]> By: Neal http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-2188 Neal Wed, 09 Sep 2009 08:45:55 +0000 http://www.social-europe.eu/?p=1750#comment-2188 to be fair Rhoderick i gave New Labour some space between 1994-1998 as I was quite keen on getting rid of the Tories. But ever since Ive been asking ever more strident questions. in 1998 i had a front page lead in the Staesman calling for a return to social democarcy. I long ago stopped calling and started organsing. to be fair Rhoderick i gave New Labour some space between 1994-1998 as I was quite keen on getting rid of the Tories. But ever since Ive been asking ever more strident questions. in 1998 i had a front page lead in the Staesman calling for a return to social democarcy. I long ago stopped calling and started organsing.

]]> By: Dominic http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-2153 Dominic Sat, 05 Sep 2009 08:57:00 +0000 http://www.social-europe.eu/?p=1750#comment-2153 It was not hard to be in favour of New Labour at the beginning of Blair's leadership. Have you already forgotten the Labour Party before then? When John Smith died Blair was the right choice. Neal and Compass however noticed as I did that how this politics evolved (and it was an evolution) was not right and started opposing it when it became clear that New Labour wouldn't pursue a whole series of social democratic priorities (inequality, economic reform, ...). At this point you grow more critical and this is what many have done. So Neal is perfectly consistent in his position. It was not hard to be in favour of New Labour at the beginning of Blair’s leadership. Have you already forgotten the Labour Party before then? When John Smith died Blair was the right choice.

Neal and Compass however noticed as I did that how this politics evolved (and it was an evolution) was not right and started opposing it when it became clear that New Labour wouldn’t pursue a whole series of social democratic priorities (inequality, economic reform, …). At this point you grow more critical and this is what many have done.

So Neal is perfectly consistent in his position.

]]> By: Rhoderick Gates http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-2152 Rhoderick Gates Sat, 05 Sep 2009 06:05:28 +0000 http://www.social-europe.eu/?p=1750#comment-2152 And what Neal Lawson won't admit is he helped defend the Third Way, including as Chair of Compass. He doesn't talk about the 'radical center' NOW. Only now is he talking about social democracy. Tut, tut. And what Neal Lawson won’t admit is he helped defend the Third Way, including as Chair of Compass. He doesn’t talk about the ‘radical center’ NOW. Only now is he talking about social democracy. Tut, tut.

]]> By: Henning Meyer http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-2136 Henning Meyer Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:25:17 +0000 http://www.social-europe.eu/?p=1750#comment-2136 Looks like the German right tries the old red scare tactics again, coining the Nahles Cruddas paper as a blueprint for a red-red-green coalition (apart from the fact that it was published months before the elections last Sunday). For those of you who read German here some reactions: Berliner Zeitung http://www.bz-berlin.de/aktuell/deutschland/nahles-rot-roter-deutschland-plan-article570083.html#bzTAF Bild Zeitung: http://www.bild.de/BILD/politik/2009/09/02/kampeter-meyer/wirtschaftsfluegel-der-union-motzt-gegen-rot-rot.html Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung: http://www.fazfinance.net/Aktuell/Wie-sich-die-SPD-auf-Rot-Rot-Gruen-vorbereitet-4549.faz And a rather poor Blog disucssion on the paper on Der Freitag: http://z1.application2.kba.d9t.de/freitag/community/blogs/ingo-stuetzle/wie-sich-die-bourgeoisie-auf-rot-rot-gruen-vorbereitet Looks like the German right tries the old red scare tactics again, coining the Nahles Cruddas paper as a blueprint for a red-red-green coalition (apart from the fact that it was published months before the elections last Sunday).

For those of you who read German here some reactions:

Berliner Zeitung
http://www.bz-berlin.de/aktuell/deutschland/nahles-rot-roter-deutschland-plan-article570083.html#bzTAF

Bild Zeitung:
http://www.bild.de/BILD/politik/2009/09/02/kampeter-meyer/wirtschaftsfluegel-der-union-motzt-gegen-rot-rot.html

Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung:
http://www.fazfinance.net/Aktuell/Wie-sich-die-SPD-auf-Rot-Rot-Gruen-vorbereitet-4549.faz

And a rather poor Blog disucssion on the paper on Der Freitag:
http://z1.application2.kba.d9t.de/freitag/community/blogs/ingo-stuetzle/wie-sich-die-bourgeoisie-auf-rot-rot-gruen-vorbereitet

]]> By: Anders Nilsson http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-2135 Anders Nilsson Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:29:01 +0000 http://www.social-europe.eu/?p=1750#comment-2135 The future social democracy must be based on the three equality, sustainability and democracy, but it will not work without the fourth and classical: Freedom. In the good society you cannot afford this massive growth of control in the hands of the state and private corporations. Freedom doesn´t equal democracy, it is a condition. The future social democracy must be based on the three equality, sustainability and democracy, but it will not work without the fourth and classical: Freedom. In the good society you cannot afford this massive growth of control in the hands of the state and private corporations. Freedom doesn´t equal democracy, it is a condition.

]]> By: Markus Schweiger http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-2132 Markus Schweiger Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:09:41 +0000 http://www.social-europe.eu/?p=1750#comment-2132 I think this is an excellent analysis and also a very interesting outline for further work towards a new social democratic ideology. The most important point is to create a new vision of a good society because at the starting point of the social democratic movement such a vision was one of its most important ideological and political weapon. I think this is an excellent analysis and also a very interesting outline for further work towards a new social democratic ideology. The most important point is to create a new vision of a good society because at the starting point of the social democratic movement such a vision was one of its most important ideological and political weapon.

]]> By: Radovan Milicevic http://www.social-europe.eu/2009/08/the-social-democratic-challenge/comment-page-1/#comment-2108 Radovan Milicevic Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:46:57 +0000 http://www.social-europe.eu/?p=1750#comment-2108 Good text. I like this "Through the interplay of all three we start to have a vision for the good society that mixes the desirable with the feasible as an effective but transformative p0litical project takes shape." Good text.
I like this “Through the interplay of all three we start to have a vision for the good society that mixes the desirable with the feasible as an effective but transformative p0litical project takes shape.”

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